Why I moved to Gnome
I’ve been a KDE user basically since I started using Linux. The Qt toolkit’s default theme was much more visually appealing than GTK+, KDE’s purple and silver (remember back when there was no blue to speak of in Kubuntu?) was a nicer mix than Ubuntu’s orange and brown, and the KDE apps were pretty awesome. Despite this, I’m now sitting here in front of a clean Ubuntu Intrepid install.
LacKing in appliKations
Even while I was a KDE user, I was frustrated by the apps that Kubuntu came with. Amarok was awesome, to be sure. K3B was pretty darn awesome. And KDE’s plasmoids are a ton better than Gnome’s Screenlets. But that’s about the limit. Pidgin’s interface was so much more clean than Kopete’s. Strigi made 10GB indexes of my 80GB hard drive. Konqueror was lousy at loading webpages. KDE email notifiers drove me crazy (I resorted to CheckGmail). And even the highly-touted KOffice paled in comparison to OpenOffice.org’s friendly (albeit slightly foreign) interface.
Of course, most would ask why I didn’t just use Gnome apps in KDE. It might just be me, but it seemed to that Gnome apps are quite unstable in KDE. Pidgin would routinely crash (though that could have been the fact that I usually run a lot of plugins with it) and CheckGmail would periodically fail. Additionally, Gnome apps look horrible in KDE. Pidgin always had incorrect tray sizes, so it always had an enormous tray icon compared to normal KDE apps. And apps like HandBrake look repulsive in the K Desktop Environment.
KDE StaKility
KDE 3.5 was rock solid. Like, rock solid. But KDE 4.0 was really buggy. Of course, KDE 4.0 was really just another release candidate, so I was willing to give it some grace. And KDE 4.1 under Hardy was kind of buggy as well, but I was using the bleeding edge libraries, so I expected that. But when Intrepid came out with KDE 4, I was really upset. Canonical has a long and rich tradition of having the software they ship just work, and Kubuntu had normally done just that. However, this version was horrible. Maybe it was the desktop effects, but KDE 4.1 on Intrepid was almost as unstable as KDE 4.0 was on Hardy. I lived with it for about a month, then gave up.
KanoniKal support (or lacK thereof)
Canonical is one of my favorite companies around. However, there’s one thing I really don’t like about them: they focus much more on working with Gnome than with KDE (or, for that matter, Xfce). Maybe that’s just because Gnome is more popular with Canonical developers. I’m certainly not complaining. But I am upset. Jockey-KDE lagged far behind Jockey-Gnome. GDebiKDE had lots of memory usage bugs, but GDebi’s just fine.
At this point, most KDE diehards are scratching their heads and trying to figure out why I just didn’t switch to another distribution that supports KDE. I tried. But SimplyMEPIS just didn’t work. openSuSE’s package manager was annoying. And Debian is… meh. I know I’m going to get a lot of comments about why I should switch to Xandros, Red Hat, and all those other great distros. Let me say this now: I like the .deb, I like the Ubuntu Forums, and I like Canonical. I’m not leaving the *buntus.
Conclusion
One day, I snapped. I opened a terminal, uninstalled all traces of KDE, aptituded ubuntu-desktop, and I had a clean Ubuntu system all ready to roll. I loved it. Evolution rocked the socks off of me. Gedit was comparable to Kate, if not superior. Firefox was its normal self. I did have to install a few KDE apps to make me happy (Amarok ftw!), but at the core, I have a Gnome desktop. And you know what? I’m happy.
I absolutely agree with everything in your article. I too just snapped one day thinking: ‘OK, since KDE keeps releasing (what is effectively) betas, Gnome apps look like Win95 apps (in KDE4) and most of the apps I use are Gnome based, I’m gonna try Intrepid with Gnome’. And I have to say: I’m very happy with Gnome Intrepid.
Tip: instead of Amarok, try Banshee. Awesome music app which makes using iPods a breeze.
Ronnie
26 Nov 08 at 5:16 pm
I wrote a similar article some time ago myself. You may find it interesting reading.
http://linuxfreedom-technoshaun.blogspot.com/2008/11/from-kde-to-gnome-users-perspective
By the way for the record, It isn’t just Kubuntu many KDE releases are jumping on to the 4 wagon before its really ready. And from the way its going I doubt I will be a KDE user again.
Shaun Marolf
26 Nov 08 at 5:32 pm
I think this is an excellent example of why Linux variants are the way to go… at least you had the option!
For me, there’s something about the KDE look that appeals to me – and I love the new KWin manager, with in-house effects. I’ve got a wimpy laptop, and Kubuntu Ibex runs wonderfully on it.
Plus, it depends on what you use it for – I’m big into using Kile, and Okular is a great document viewer.
Yes, the release of Ibex pushed me further into the KDE camp…
Cibbuano
26 Nov 08 at 5:43 pm
All about Gnome, baby!
Aleks
27 Nov 08 at 12:27 am
I do understand your posting, the Ibex with Gnome is seriously a great Desktop environment which really capable of competing with mac osx and windows.
Canonical did a great Job with this release. So for the DAU this is great…
There’s only one thing I would like to say.
KDE 4.0 Developer release – to get the KDE application developers on bord
KDE 4.1 Early adopters release
KDE 4.2 Will be the first release which is assumed to be on a normal users desktop
KDE 4.3 Will definitly blow your hat off…
The KDE peoples themself never said something else… it was the press (magazins, blogs,…)
I have installed OpenSUSE 11.1 beta 5 with the Unstable KDE packages… so more the less KDE trunk. I’ve never had any problems up to now.
But all together… everybody has the choice to use what he wants…. may be in 2-3 years Gnome will need to be rebuilt from scratch to take the next step and KDE will be the more mature desktop… who knows… =)
Bernhard Rode
27 Nov 08 at 3:58 am
Gedit still doesn’t support block-selection, a must for development work. Apparently it’s a GTK deficiency and would be much more complicated to impliment than one might expect using the existing toolkit. For this reason, I continue to install Kate along with Amarok and K3B on my otherwise GNOMEy system…
Bob/Paul
27 Nov 08 at 4:14 am
I’ve been a KDE user with Kubuntu since 2005 and I have to agree with you on this. KDE 4 just plain sucks. I really do hanker for the old 3.5 days.
But I always used non KDE stuff anyway – Thunderbird, Firefox, Openoffice.
Now I’m using Xfce (Xubuntu). I’m not sold on Gnome (yet) but I’m finding that Xfce is a reasonably good GUI – and quick too.
One Salient Oversight
27 Nov 08 at 4:36 am
I normally use Gnome but I am actually planning to try out KDE after 4.2 has been released. Just because it looks so good in screenhots!
G
27 Nov 08 at 5:26 am
Uf you switch from KDE That means you like it up the rump with a ATUBBA!
YOU ARE GSGIOSGHBG++! FAGGOT!
Ibod Catooga
27 Nov 08 at 5:35 am
I don’t agree with some of the things you said, for example the KOffice vs. OpenOffice comparison you make it look like OpenOffice was part of Gnome which is not, as a matter of fact almost every distro that uses KDE by default uses OpenOffice.
Besides that you seem to forget that this is free software and nobody in particular is responsible for the quality of the software (not even QTLabs or Canonical), if we all care to fill out bug reports and (whenever possible) submit patches we can change the situation for the better.
Anyways you should really try Mandriva, it has waaay better integration with KDE.
Cheers!
Duke_Forever
27 Nov 08 at 6:57 am
Same here at the same time. i felt KDE 4 team was making fun of me. Don’t release a version and call it STABLE if it’s just a little more than a pre-alpha!!!. That happend with 4.0. I thought: “ok, i’ll wait for 4.1″, released 4.1 and it was more of the same. They said again “4.2 will be really stable for everybody”. I Got sick of that. I’m not gonna wait until 4.50 or 4.1000 to get a STABLE environment. So i switched to Gnome and i’m not going to go back. Gnome is STABLE!!! and i’m happy here too.
ROOT
27 Nov 08 at 10:05 am
I have always failed to understand people’s fascination with Gnome. Disorganized UI, poorly integrated tools for various functions. Ubuntu is OK, I can take it or leave it. Their latest release is a bug-fest. Gave up on it after about 2 weeks. Trying the latest Mandriva, which is MUCH better than Ubuntu 8.10.
That said, both are pigs. Resource intensive at idle. Use a ton of memory. Buggy. I’m going back to PC Linux OS. They have done a FINE job of making a streamlined, quality release. It’s FAST. I didn’t realize how fast till I decided to play with the new releases from Ubuntu/Mandriva.
If you’re looking for something that “just works” PC Linux OS is worth checking out.
Rico
27 Nov 08 at 10:30 am
Kubuntu has always left a lot to be desired for me. I also have always liked KDE better than Gnome. I started with Kubuntu, but have switched to Opensuse. Opensuse has the best KDE desktop hands down. It also lacks a lot of the bugs Kubuntu has because the devs give KDE the attention it needs. They are also still offering KDE3 on the DVD version for users not wanting to switch(for at least up to version 11.1) I strongly recommend giving it a try.
67GTA
27 Nov 08 at 11:06 am
I have to disagree with the article and the thinking behind it.
I have never used a pure Gnome or pure KDE. I don’t like limitations. I have seldom found that GTK apps crash in KDE or that QT apps crash in Gnome. I sue the best application for the job and don’t care if it is Gnome or KDE.
I run both Gnome and KDE 4 and have Gnome set up so that it uses my QT4 fonts and decorations. I have the panel at the top in both Gnome and KDE. I have a similar look and feel. What separates them apart is QT4 and plasma.
There is no way that Gnome can be made to look as great as KDE 4, no matter what you add or how hard you try. Not only that but KDE 4 is faster than KDE 3.5 and possibly faster than Gnome. It is time for Gnome to have a makeover to catch up to KDE.
Add to this the fact than many KDE 4 apps have been re-written in the past year and you can see why distros such as Kubuntu are using KDE 4 over KDE 3.5. They just look better and work better.
Supporting both KDE 3.5 and KDE 4 may be an option, but it would divide the pool of developers and I prefer to see them concentrate their efforts on improving the future than supporting the past.
As for the PCLOS comment, PCLOS is fine if you like limitations. I don’t. I find RPM is not as good as DEB. I find their are far fewer packages. Some programs that I use cannot be found in the PCLOS repositories last time I looked. You can’t install them due to dependency problems and you can’t find packages pre-compiled for PCLOS on sites such as Getdeb.net for Ubuntu.
Also you will find many PCLOS users are growing disenchanted with that OS. They find the one man show development problematic. It means a long time between releases and the cycle becomes dragged out even longer if the developer gets ill as with Texstar. What this means for the average user that PCLOS loses its currency quickly. Download and install it halfway through its cycle and be prepared for mega updating. It is equivalent to installing Ubuntu from an 8.04 CD and then immediately updating and then upgrading to 8.10 without being given any other choice, except stay out of date. Not fun.
I like the Ubuntu approach and support too much to wander off into a small poorly supported distro, no matter how good. I have lived in RPM hell, as well, so would never go back to using RPMs, even if it does have Synaptic.
A better choice for a dissatisfied Ubuntu user would be to choose SimplyMEPIS 8. It is Debian. It uses KDE 3.5. It has all of the huge Debian repositories and it comes with restricted drivers and multimedia codecs enabled. It is to Debian what PCLOS is to Mandriva except that Debian has better package management and is better supported.
But why leave Ubuntu? It is hardly a sinking ship. It is on the ascendancy while the rest are on the decline. If you don’t like Ubuntu, there are many Ubuntu alternatives such as Mint, openGEU, SuperUbuntu, Ultimate, Fluxbuntu and more. You could try out a new version every day for weeks and still not run out.
Gnome is for people who don’t like to configure. It is for lazy users who like to complain about the choices made by the Gnome or Ubuntu developers such as the wallpaper or things like that, but don’t want to do anything to help themselves. KDE users want more control from the outset and resent being limited. You don’t have to stick with one or the other, you can mix the two quite well. You can have Screenlets in KDE 4 or use Kopete in Gnome if that is your desire.
LinuxCanuck
27 Nov 08 at 11:23 am
Debian is meh?? Sorry but I’ve never been happy with the KDE releases from Canonical, and after waiting over two years for many of my bugs (and subscribed bugs) to be addressed, I changed to Debian Testing and I’ve not looked back. KDE for me, I like my desktop to have functions, not make those decisions for me like Gnome does (by removing more and more options in their apps). The 4.1.x series from the Debian Experimental branch have been rock solid for me and I only look forward to the newest releases…
But with Free Software, to each their own!
lefty.crupps
27 Nov 08 at 11:24 am
Your so called “arguments” are childish.
If your combination of KDE-Gnome applications blow up in smoke, you just try to do it in a different distro. Those who use just KDE apps or Gnome apps are missing on a lot of fun from the other camp.
Whitespiral
27 Nov 08 at 11:39 am
You simply have to uncheck the kmail reminder stuff in the preferences and they go away. Come on.
KDE4 has something to make gtk apps look native QT:
gtk-qt-engine-kde4
Install and use that, and gtk apps look much better.
I personally use KDE because of all the great KDE apps, compared to Gnome.
To each his own.
Bob
27 Nov 08 at 12:08 pm
Good summation. I have been touting in KDE 4.1 a couple weeks now and I can say that it’s not ready for prime-time yet. I’ve had two severe bugs the completely froze my Desktop.
From what I heard before KDE had a lot of applications to offer but it is definitely deficient in a couple areas: mail notification, and note taking apps. Thanks for the review.
dirkgently
27 Nov 08 at 12:44 pm
I wholeheartedly agree with you on your summation here.
I was a loyal KDE 3.5x user. NOTHING could tare me away from my beloved KDE. If a distro did not have a KDE default install, i didn’t use it. I loved the flexability and usefulness of KDE. Kubuntu was awesome. PCLinuxOS was fantastic…even KDE Fedora was fun.
Then came KDE4. I really tried to like it but it was just to buggy and to unfriendly for me to use. So, i made the full time switch to GNOME and am seriously wondering when GNOME (itlesat for Ubuntu) grew up. Last time i used Gnome i had real problems configuring my system….i guess a lot has changed in 4 years. Gnome has supprised me and I’m now converted to it…
and it’s really nice to have most of my programs I like as the Ubuntu Defaults. Just install K3B (though, suprisingly Gnomebaker isnt half bad) and i’m good to go.
I’d suggest Gnome anytime over KDE4. I’m really hoping i don’t have to say that in the future.
Barronmore
27 Nov 08 at 3:13 pm
I agree with the article. I too was totally 100% KDE. I noticed KDE has no real FTP program, which FileZilla (gtk app) is wonderful, Konqueror should be discontinued it was so buggy and would crash. I agree too what you are saying about Pidgin. I found a great gtk editor called Screem to do my HTML, there’s so many great gtk apps. KOffice, KWord was a let down, when I was using KDE I found AbiWord was so great and wonderful. I was dissapointed in KDE4, so now I am “desktop independent” I run Compiz and the AWN for the icon bar and thats it. I have an .xinitrc file that starts “gnome-settings-daemon” and awn and compiz. I’m not using either “desktop”. Just .xinitrc. I’m running “no desktop”. So if I want Okular the new KDE4 pdf viewer (great program) I’m on ArchLinux, I just type “pacman -S kdegraphics” and get the parts i need. There’s no reason to run a whole desktop. I don’t need an automatic window to pop up when I insert a usb device, I know its there since I’m the one who plugged it in. Many people out there can run a “No Desktop” setup like me and just use minimal scripts and not install the full kit. I’m using some of the Mac4Lin bits and pieces and it looks great. Krita is crap compared to Gimp, there are good programs in both, but gnome-terminal is much better (simpler) than Konsole seemed to have wayyyy to many options for its own good. I don’t run gnome-panel I have no taskbar or bar. I don’t want one since I have AWN dock, I have everything I need for a clean simple interface. Oh also I discovered Gnumeric blows away KCalc, wow gnumeric is really good. I still will use some KDE apps, but I am now able to run the best of BOTH and not run a full blown desktop. I have an intel i965 (very common) graphics chip and KWin in KDE4 it would not run. Compiz+AWN is the way to go. I hope more people will run a “no desktop” type of solution. http://www.3lusive.com/coollinux.htm this shows AWN, this a mod I did to kde 3.5.x for a friend. but I made a video of AWN.
Jim
6 Dec 08 at 1:59 pm
in reply to LinuxCanuck: KDE4 looks good.
one of the other problems I had is while I was still on KDE3.59 I loved how I could change and add many GUI styles to Gtk apps easily. Whereas, in KDE, it seemed that as time went on “old looks” were broken, had to be compiled, etc. so that on arrival of KDE4, you have oxygen the default setting (oxygen looks crap to me, the developer now dropped it in favor of his new Bespin which looks awesome.) I saw the
oxygen style reminded me of GREY WINDOWS 95 with a touch of something new (vista/mac). But it looked outdated to me.
One of the greatest looks was Baghira in KDE, but that became abandoned, and even when it was working it was always very buggy and slow. So here we have KDE where GUI themes don’t work, they’re hard to write (I could never find the documentation or tutorial to do a KDE style). Whereas I noticed that on my GTK apps I had MULTIPLE mac/osx lookalikes and tons of themes, whereas you went over to KDE4 and there was nothing.
The themes if you compare the number of them, KDE
is lacking. Bespin looks awesome. but the number of choices in Gtk have always been around.
I’m looking forward to the KDE4 apps, however i’m not excited about their Windows start bar (boooring, move along nothing to see here). The Plasma applets I will run those outside of the KDE dekstop.
I’m glad that Linux/BSD/etc gives us the freedom
to set up our systems the way we want. I’m not “DRINKING THE KOOL-AID” on either Gnome of KDE I remain independent and focused on setting up things which suit me best not the way they are forced upon me. The KDE4 taskbar/Start Bar ripped from the womb of Windows XP is not exciting to me (I prefer an icon dock). There’s good things happening in KDE and Gnome, I’m just glad there’s FREEDOM to use both in an agnostic way.
Jim
6 Dec 08 at 2:15 pm
Andrew, what’s up, brother?
I’m like you. I too used to be a die-hard KDE fan, and if a distro didn’t have KDE, I just plain didn’t consider it. For me, Mandrake (now Mandriva, of course) was my first introduction to Linux, and that was in 2004 (before the debut of Ubuntu), and they’re naturally a KDE-oriented distro. I also had MEPIS and PCLinuxOS installed on my computer at various times as well, and even though I’m no longer a KDE fan, for anyone wanting an excellent KDE-centric distro, I would recommend PCLinuxOS. Besides, last I knew, PCLOS has, very wisely, IMHO, stayed with KDE 3.5.x, at least for the time being.
But, like I said, I became a fan of GNOME and Xfce about a year or so ago, and for the very same reason — KDE4. I heard a lot of bad press about it, but I was still willing to give it a chance. I gave it a spin on a live SuSE CD — and to tell you the truth, I felt absolutely LOST in KDE4. Not to mention, it was buggy indeed!
I then thought “well, OK, let’s give GNOME a try” — and I was instantly hooked! To be honest, I’ve found that GNOME, at least the way Ubuntu does it, anyways, is really a more well thought-out desktop than KDE. Plus, as a themeaholic (is that a word? LOL), I’ve really found that GNOME is WAY more customizable than KDE. Mind you, it doesn’t look like it on the surface, which is probably why it didn’t make a good first impression with me several years ago. But now that I’ve dug deeper, I’m convinced that if you’ve got powerful enough hardware for it, it RULES! (and if you don’t, or if you like to be a speed demon, there’s Xfce, which is kind of a “GNOME, Jr.” of sorts — and yes, I think it’s cool, too!).
And no, like several other people on here, even when I was a KDE fan, I never cared for Kubuntu at all, which is why I never really warmed up to any flavor of Ubuntu at all until KDE4 drove me to GNOME. Yeah, KDE3 is still around, but my thought was, why stay with KDE when the KDE 3.x line is gonna be scrapped?
Therefore, I’m now fully at home with GNOME.
Fred McKinney
27 Dec 08 at 10:46 pm
You should give Banshee a try, I think it’s even better than the bloated Amarok these days.
Gnomer
5 Jan 09 at 5:59 am
Well, there sure is a wide variety of taste…
I don’t quite get the people promoting a “better” desktop. There are two big DEs out there not because some people would like to devide the linux world but because they both have their advantages and disadvantages and people have different preferences.
I seem to be part of that rare species that switched from GNOME to KDE because of KDE4.
it might sound funny, but the first time I thought about switching to KDE was when I saw yakuake opening smoothly and immediately on a KDE3 desktop. I tried kde3 several times but I never actually started to like it. Gnome was great, but it felt heavy to me. it was not as responsive as KDE, dragging windows was not as smooth as in kde, many standard gnome apps took long to load and felt slow.
And then came KDE4. It looks great, of course. It does right from the beginning. I tried out KDE 4.0. It was buggy, of course. one or two weeks later there was KDE 4.1. It was ok, although plasma crashed sometimes.
Now I’m a happy KDE 4.2.4 user looking forward to KDE 4.3
Pidgin is great but what’s wrong about Kopete? when I found the option to tab conversations automatically, I was completey satisfied.
)
I prefer Kate over gedit
Arora is still in development and by far not as feature rich as firefox is. But it actually has almost everything I want from a web browser
Kmail is as good as thunderbird and evolution
Amarok 2 is great
I still use Gimp though
and so on…
But who knows, maybe I will be using Gnome again once. They are both great desktops for anyone who preferres to order a whole meal, rather than having to find out how to cook one (not literally of course – I like cooking
Workoft
6 Jun 09 at 12:54 pm